Let's accept - at least for the moment - that these relics are not forgeries or imaginative constructs by ancient craftsmen, and that referenced DNA and physiological reports are true. Immediately, I am struck by the intellectual crime of giving them the silent treatment. For years, I read Archaeology magazine from cover to cover, and certainly would not have forgotten a serious article about such a startling find. Instead, we get cowardly silence - not even a refutation. Why? What are the risks of skeptical exploration of unexplained archaeology? Who is thus served? In days gone by, one might have blamed the Church, but that doesn't seem sensible in our time. Officially-propagated COVID lies and hoaxes have political and economic underpinnings, but what powerful bodies are advanced by burying these findings? The genuine scientific community needs to aggressively bring the hammer down on the imposters behind this disgrace.
Anyway... The creatures' cognitive status might possess sub- or super-human intelligence(s), or both, given that the relics reflect more than one species. The former case is amazing enough, but the latter case suggests possible answers to lingering mysteries of inexplicable ancient accomplishments. I can hardly wait to read about discoveries that further investigation will likely offer!
You're beginning to define the word "scientism". We know all the basics. Nothing new under the sun. Everything fits into our current theories. We can extend our theories, but they work so well, we don't want to change them.
The tenure track and the journal peer review are both controlled by people with long careers behind them. They are not eager to look at data that might overturn the ideas on which they have built their reputations.
Remember what Max Planck said (already more than 100 years ago): "Science progresses funeral by funeral."
I'm surprised by the academic resistance to anything resembling "an alien", since there has been such a public hunger for this as long as I can remember. The behavior of normal academics is unsurprising.
I appreciate the quote. Another comment on "science", though not perfectly applicable, one of my favorites:
"Physics is much too difficult for physicists". -- David Hilbert
What is old in science was once new and often outrageous, if not heretical, like evolution, plate tectonics, and the germ theory of disease. It is funny how many people ignore this. It is also interesting to note that the impoverishment of government and education concurrent with the increasing concentration of wealth and the increasing corruption has encouraged the scientism and ideological conflicts that are good for improving career prospects, but not in improving understanding.
It looks like at least one strong possibility is the Elohim of the Old Testament were particularly nasty aliens (the evidence is in several other religious traditions/texts, e.g. Sumerian, the Vedas).
There's also the story of the Nummo related in the oral history of the Dogon tribe, and beings with similar morphology are found in other traditions, and stories that hint at the existence of these beings.
It could also be a combination of any or all of these. There's no reason to assume, given the vastness of the cosmos, that any number of advanced civilizations exist and may be stopping by for various reasons.
Yes, I agree that the emphasis on fearing God in the Bible could be reference to an alien race of slave-masters. IMO there's also something stranger, beyond technology, abilities of the spirit or the mind.
Some ancient human civilization made genetic selection of human beings. Many past civilizations made genetic selection of animals and plants, maybe they did the same for humans as well, for religious ot other reasons.
I agree. I'm going to add a Story #3 to the main text. Maybe there were civilizations in our past that were advanced enough to perform experiments in genetic engineering. Maybe it was a 2000 year old edition of Transhumanism.
Thanks for an extremely interesting post - I didn't know about this stuff.
I feel like #1, the convergent evolution of aliens story, can be ruled out. Our genomes are extremely messy, full of trash that pretty obviously serves no direct purpose and is not materially subject to evolutionary pressure. I cannot believe aliens would arrive at anything like the same structure and meta-content - for a simplistic example, the same number of chromosomes - because they fill a similar niche as us on a different planet. Anyway this should be testable by observing genomes in convergent evolution among terrestrial species.
For #2, I don't see the need to bring in UFOs etc. Its natural of course to look for a single explanation that covers a bunch of separate observations, but i think that's likely a function of our minds and ways of attempting understanding, rather than necessarily reality. At any rate, the hypothesis as a whole seems greatly weakened by this without some specific connections between these mummies and UFOs.
As for my explanations, based on just reading your post, if there's some compelling evidence the nasca mummies are real it would be good to see that laid out - but there's not so I'd go for hoax. The ata mummy seems real (tho where is eg the basis for 3m SNPs?), but also a lot less weird so I'd guess at genetic condition or humanoid species which has disappeared.
If I thought these mummies were faked, I would not have written about them. I listened to the testimony of the Peruvian biologists (translated from Spanish in the videos I linked). I read the papers by Nolan and others. This is not the kind of thing that can be faked with a 3D printer. The intricate internal structures that show up under X-ray would be a tour de force of fabrication. Then there's the C14 dates. This would require a laboratory that could do isotope separation, together with a way to incorporate the altered carbon into a whole range of biomolecules. The genetic content indicates DNA from no known modern species.
Yes, you are in good company when you say these mummies are all frauds. Mainstream anthropologists say the same thing. But it is clear to me they are just defending their turf. They have no answers to how the details could have been faked.
I don't say I have an explanation. These objects are an invitation to expand our thinking about human origins and to open our minds into connections with other anomalies.
"If I thought these mummies were faked, I would not have written about them." OK but I'm sure you can see as a reader that I'd want know why you thought this - it's not substantiated in the post, to my mind.
(I mean, its not like I'm paying this subscription so you owe me nothing but if you are interested in feedback, this is it!)
Eg I looked around for the DNA data saying Maria is 1/3 non human or whatever. Most lab analyses didn't report any such thing, as far as I could tell, and the only thing that did was an "anonymous PhD" which is extremely hard to put much credibility in, for all sorts of reasons - including pure incompetence. https://www.the-alien-project.com/en/mummies-of-nasca-results/.
If there's anything I have to offer my Substack community it is my judgment as a scientist. My bullshit detector is finely tuned. I listen to these Latin American scientists and they sound credible to my ear. I don't mean a judgment about their body language. I mean that the tests that they describe are the appropriate tests, the way they analyze results is an appropriate methodology, the results they report and their responses to those results all sound reasonable.
I understand your predilection to dismiss all this stuff as being so far out that it can't possibly be true. We all want the world to make sense. But in order to make sense of the world, we have had to throw out a lot of credible data.
You're right -- no one is paying me. But I've taken on this Substack, and I see my job as sorting through all the crazy claims that are out there and reporting on the ones that I find credible. I am selective. There are lots of people saying "viruses don't exist", but you won't find that on my page. There are people advocating for an "electric universe". There is a company in NJ built on the premise that what we call the "ground state" of the hydrogen atom is not, in fact, the lowest state. These examples and many others are claims on the fringes of science that I do not find credible, so I won't write about them.
I'd like to assure that when you read something on my Substack page, it has passed Sagan's threshold, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
"I understand your predilection to dismiss all this stuff as being so far out that it can't possibly be true"
Absolutely not and I haven't and won't. I just need to see reasons to believe it is true vs competing explanations such as the obvious one that its a fake (or a mistake).
Would you be able to let me know the source for "Roughly ⅓ of her DNA is human, ⅙ from other species, and ½ defines identification"? Is it the excerpt from the "anonymous PhD"? Because, I'm sorry, that's just nowhere near enough for me. No peer review, no attribution, no validation of any kind for what would be one of the most shocking scientific discoveries of all time..
Only asking because I am genuinely interested in whether this stuff could be "real".. ..wouldn't be wasting both our time otherwise
The attribution of DNA fragments is from one of the videos on the Alien Project website which I referenced. But the web page seems to be unstable. I'm not sure how much of what I saw yesterday is from my cache, but I can't find these videos now. The most recent archive version is missing. Here is a year-old archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20220910001029/https://www.the-alien-project.com/en/jamin-palpanensis-hybrid-humanoid/ See if you can navigate to the video by Mexican biologist Dr José de la Cruz Ríos López.
Statements about proportion of DNA are of unclear meaning because they depend on the size of fragment that the analysis is looking at. All DNA analysis is made by piecing together overlapping fragments with a computer algorithm. The smaller the fragment, the more likely it is to match perfectly.
And here's a Vimeo that I just discovered, haven't watched yet, but seems to go into depth and it's in English: https://vimeo.com/496429582 Let me know if you find it convincing.
Sorry to be so late to this party. It slid off the bottom of my inbox, somehow.
I am intrigued by Maria, with "1/3 human DNA" and 1/6 other species, with half not identifiable.
No breasts or umbilicus, so what is her reproductive scheme?
Josefina with 3 eggs and no teeth, is small, with birdlike and reptilian features, but hominid form.
Josefina has a copper alloy implant in her chest, and what was her food with that minimalist mouth?
These mummies seems to be preserved similarly and are of 1700-1800 year age by carbon dating.
They seem like they might be projects. An extraterrestrial species might work on projects on our planet, if it is very different from their own world, something like artificial intermediary species, ambassadors or regents. They could find successful traits in a variety of terrestrial species, which might support features they would like to add for functionalities more similar to their own. Josefina having eggs and a copper alloy implant in her chest are both interesting. One wonders if the copper alloy implant would be functional, therapeutic, decorative in some way, or added after death for some reason.
I'm reluctant to draw any firm conclusions. When the only options are completely outside our scientific experience, how can we tell which possibilities are less improbable than the others?
I agree that someone is doing genetic experiments. We already have evidence of this from abductions and cattle mutilations. So it's a reasonable connection to make that it's the same beings in the present and 2000 years ago and this lends weight to the hypothesis that humans with our fused #2 chromosome are a product of similar experiments a few million years back.
If I'm on the right track with this, then we get to find out the answer in a reasonable time frame -- that is, if all the speculation about imminent "disclosure" is well-found. In the "breakaway civilization" scenario, there are already humans who is conducting the experiments and to what end.
My friend, Ellen, has been telling me for a decade that whoever is doing these horrible things, they aren't human. I'm coming around to her opinion. They are our overlords, and they are living underground or in Antarctica or hiding in plain sight, taking human form. I find it plausible that there are competing races, warring with one another to control our planet. Whether they are extraterrestrial or something more like the Greek Pantheon is something we'll find out. The tea leaves are pointing to an unveiling in coming months or years. It's more likely that this will come from human whistleblowers than the overlords themselves coming out of the closet.
Then the big question will be whether the whistleblowers are laughed off the stage.
I just saw this, another mummy story, this one more ancient, and obscured by modern secrecy. It's just interesting and does not fit, even with potential dating problems...
800-Million-Years-Old Sarcophagus In Siberia: Tisul Princess
800 million years is before the Cambrian explosion, a time when there was only single-celled life on earth. If this is real, I have nothing left with which to think about the subject. But what is the evidence for 800 million years? This was left out of the video.
A story like this is a good qualification for my first paragraph. I wrote disparagingly about throwing out evidence that doesn't fit with present paradigms. But we all have to decide which scientific mysteries to focus attention on. My criteria are the strength of the evidence and intrinsic interest of the claim. In this case, the intrinsic interest is very high, but the strength of the evidence is too low for me to take it on. At least for now.
There's a line of possibility introduced in a few different 'The Why Files' episodes (You can find the show on Youtube. I highly recommend it. If you've yet to see it, know that he starts with the "conspiracy theory" story and then he argues against it. Sometimes the conspiracy largely stays on the table; sometimes it's mostly dis-proven, in any case, he's interested in anomalies & unanswered questions. You have to watch it until the end to learn how he thinks, and, often, in the making of the show he comes to believe more than he initially did). In broad strokes, an idea he presents would be that we arrived far in the distant past, (similar to the superman story) ensconced within (protected by) specifically-crafted-containers and that, similar to creatures that live in extreme niches, we've evolved to survive. If that's a possible origin story for us, then that could be a possibility for the mummies you describe.
There's a line of possibility introduced in a few different 'The Why Files' episodes (You can find the show on Youtube. I highly recommend it. If you've yet to see it, know that he starts with the "conspiracy theory" story and then he argues against it. Sometimes the conspiracy largely stays on the table; sometimes it's mostly dis-proven, in any case, he's interested in anomalies & unanswered questions. You have to watch it until the end to learn how he thinks, and, often, in the making of the show he comes to believe more than he initially did). In broad strokes, an idea he presents would be that we arrived far in the distant past, (similar to the superman story) ensconced within (protected by) specifically-crafted-containers and that, similar to creatures that live in extreme niches, we've evolved to survive. If that's a possible origin story for us, then that could be a possibility for the mummies you describe.
Let's accept - at least for the moment - that these relics are not forgeries or imaginative constructs by ancient craftsmen, and that referenced DNA and physiological reports are true. Immediately, I am struck by the intellectual crime of giving them the silent treatment. For years, I read Archaeology magazine from cover to cover, and certainly would not have forgotten a serious article about such a startling find. Instead, we get cowardly silence - not even a refutation. Why? What are the risks of skeptical exploration of unexplained archaeology? Who is thus served? In days gone by, one might have blamed the Church, but that doesn't seem sensible in our time. Officially-propagated COVID lies and hoaxes have political and economic underpinnings, but what powerful bodies are advanced by burying these findings? The genuine scientific community needs to aggressively bring the hammer down on the imposters behind this disgrace.
Anyway... The creatures' cognitive status might possess sub- or super-human intelligence(s), or both, given that the relics reflect more than one species. The former case is amazing enough, but the latter case suggests possible answers to lingering mysteries of inexplicable ancient accomplishments. I can hardly wait to read about discoveries that further investigation will likely offer!
You're beginning to define the word "scientism". We know all the basics. Nothing new under the sun. Everything fits into our current theories. We can extend our theories, but they work so well, we don't want to change them.
The tenure track and the journal peer review are both controlled by people with long careers behind them. They are not eager to look at data that might overturn the ideas on which they have built their reputations.
Remember what Max Planck said (already more than 100 years ago): "Science progresses funeral by funeral."
I'm surprised by the academic resistance to anything resembling "an alien", since there has been such a public hunger for this as long as I can remember. The behavior of normal academics is unsurprising.
I appreciate the quote. Another comment on "science", though not perfectly applicable, one of my favorites:
"Physics is much too difficult for physicists". -- David Hilbert
What is old in science was once new and often outrageous, if not heretical, like evolution, plate tectonics, and the germ theory of disease. It is funny how many people ignore this. It is also interesting to note that the impoverishment of government and education concurrent with the increasing concentration of wealth and the increasing corruption has encouraged the scientism and ideological conflicts that are good for improving career prospects, but not in improving understanding.
It looks like at least one strong possibility is the Elohim of the Old Testament were particularly nasty aliens (the evidence is in several other religious traditions/texts, e.g. Sumerian, the Vedas).
There's also the story of the Nummo related in the oral history of the Dogon tribe, and beings with similar morphology are found in other traditions, and stories that hint at the existence of these beings.
It could also be a combination of any or all of these. There's no reason to assume, given the vastness of the cosmos, that any number of advanced civilizations exist and may be stopping by for various reasons.
Yes, I agree that the emphasis on fearing God in the Bible could be reference to an alien race of slave-masters. IMO there's also something stranger, beyond technology, abilities of the spirit or the mind.
Supposedly the El had the ability to psychically influence people.
My story:
Some ancient human civilization made genetic selection of human beings. Many past civilizations made genetic selection of animals and plants, maybe they did the same for humans as well, for religious ot other reasons.
I agree. I'm going to add a Story #3 to the main text. Maybe there were civilizations in our past that were advanced enough to perform experiments in genetic engineering. Maybe it was a 2000 year old edition of Transhumanism.
Thanks for an extremely interesting post - I didn't know about this stuff.
I feel like #1, the convergent evolution of aliens story, can be ruled out. Our genomes are extremely messy, full of trash that pretty obviously serves no direct purpose and is not materially subject to evolutionary pressure. I cannot believe aliens would arrive at anything like the same structure and meta-content - for a simplistic example, the same number of chromosomes - because they fill a similar niche as us on a different planet. Anyway this should be testable by observing genomes in convergent evolution among terrestrial species.
For #2, I don't see the need to bring in UFOs etc. Its natural of course to look for a single explanation that covers a bunch of separate observations, but i think that's likely a function of our minds and ways of attempting understanding, rather than necessarily reality. At any rate, the hypothesis as a whole seems greatly weakened by this without some specific connections between these mummies and UFOs.
As for my explanations, based on just reading your post, if there's some compelling evidence the nasca mummies are real it would be good to see that laid out - but there's not so I'd go for hoax. The ata mummy seems real (tho where is eg the basis for 3m SNPs?), but also a lot less weird so I'd guess at genetic condition or humanoid species which has disappeared.
Thanks again
If I thought these mummies were faked, I would not have written about them. I listened to the testimony of the Peruvian biologists (translated from Spanish in the videos I linked). I read the papers by Nolan and others. This is not the kind of thing that can be faked with a 3D printer. The intricate internal structures that show up under X-ray would be a tour de force of fabrication. Then there's the C14 dates. This would require a laboratory that could do isotope separation, together with a way to incorporate the altered carbon into a whole range of biomolecules. The genetic content indicates DNA from no known modern species.
Yes, you are in good company when you say these mummies are all frauds. Mainstream anthropologists say the same thing. But it is clear to me they are just defending their turf. They have no answers to how the details could have been faked.
I don't say I have an explanation. These objects are an invitation to expand our thinking about human origins and to open our minds into connections with other anomalies.
"If I thought these mummies were faked, I would not have written about them." OK but I'm sure you can see as a reader that I'd want know why you thought this - it's not substantiated in the post, to my mind.
(I mean, its not like I'm paying this subscription so you owe me nothing but if you are interested in feedback, this is it!)
Eg I looked around for the DNA data saying Maria is 1/3 non human or whatever. Most lab analyses didn't report any such thing, as far as I could tell, and the only thing that did was an "anonymous PhD" which is extremely hard to put much credibility in, for all sorts of reasons - including pure incompetence. https://www.the-alien-project.com/en/mummies-of-nasca-results/.
If there's anything I have to offer my Substack community it is my judgment as a scientist. My bullshit detector is finely tuned. I listen to these Latin American scientists and they sound credible to my ear. I don't mean a judgment about their body language. I mean that the tests that they describe are the appropriate tests, the way they analyze results is an appropriate methodology, the results they report and their responses to those results all sound reasonable.
I understand your predilection to dismiss all this stuff as being so far out that it can't possibly be true. We all want the world to make sense. But in order to make sense of the world, we have had to throw out a lot of credible data.
You're right -- no one is paying me. But I've taken on this Substack, and I see my job as sorting through all the crazy claims that are out there and reporting on the ones that I find credible. I am selective. There are lots of people saying "viruses don't exist", but you won't find that on my page. There are people advocating for an "electric universe". There is a company in NJ built on the premise that what we call the "ground state" of the hydrogen atom is not, in fact, the lowest state. These examples and many others are claims on the fringes of science that I do not find credible, so I won't write about them.
I'd like to assure that when you read something on my Substack page, it has passed Sagan's threshold, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
"I understand your predilection to dismiss all this stuff as being so far out that it can't possibly be true"
Absolutely not and I haven't and won't. I just need to see reasons to believe it is true vs competing explanations such as the obvious one that its a fake (or a mistake).
Would you be able to let me know the source for "Roughly ⅓ of her DNA is human, ⅙ from other species, and ½ defines identification"? Is it the excerpt from the "anonymous PhD"? Because, I'm sorry, that's just nowhere near enough for me. No peer review, no attribution, no validation of any kind for what would be one of the most shocking scientific discoveries of all time..
Only asking because I am genuinely interested in whether this stuff could be "real".. ..wouldn't be wasting both our time otherwise
The attribution of DNA fragments is from one of the videos on the Alien Project website which I referenced. But the web page seems to be unstable. I'm not sure how much of what I saw yesterday is from my cache, but I can't find these videos now. The most recent archive version is missing. Here is a year-old archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20220910001029/https://www.the-alien-project.com/en/jamin-palpanensis-hybrid-humanoid/ See if you can navigate to the video by Mexican biologist Dr José de la Cruz Ríos López.
Statements about proportion of DNA are of unclear meaning because they depend on the size of fragment that the analysis is looking at. All DNA analysis is made by piecing together overlapping fragments with a computer algorithm. The smaller the fragment, the more likely it is to match perfectly.
The X-Ray videos may be more accessible. https://vimeo.com/jaminpalpanensis (3d down on the right).
And here's a Vimeo that I just discovered, haven't watched yet, but seems to go into depth and it's in English: https://vimeo.com/496429582 Let me know if you find it convincing.
Thanks Josh.
Sorry to be so late to this party. It slid off the bottom of my inbox, somehow.
I am intrigued by Maria, with "1/3 human DNA" and 1/6 other species, with half not identifiable.
No breasts or umbilicus, so what is her reproductive scheme?
Josefina with 3 eggs and no teeth, is small, with birdlike and reptilian features, but hominid form.
Josefina has a copper alloy implant in her chest, and what was her food with that minimalist mouth?
These mummies seems to be preserved similarly and are of 1700-1800 year age by carbon dating.
They seem like they might be projects. An extraterrestrial species might work on projects on our planet, if it is very different from their own world, something like artificial intermediary species, ambassadors or regents. They could find successful traits in a variety of terrestrial species, which might support features they would like to add for functionalities more similar to their own. Josefina having eggs and a copper alloy implant in her chest are both interesting. One wonders if the copper alloy implant would be functional, therapeutic, decorative in some way, or added after death for some reason.
Thanks for presenting snacks for thought.
:-D
I'm reluctant to draw any firm conclusions. When the only options are completely outside our scientific experience, how can we tell which possibilities are less improbable than the others?
I agree that someone is doing genetic experiments. We already have evidence of this from abductions and cattle mutilations. So it's a reasonable connection to make that it's the same beings in the present and 2000 years ago and this lends weight to the hypothesis that humans with our fused #2 chromosome are a product of similar experiments a few million years back.
If I'm on the right track with this, then we get to find out the answer in a reasonable time frame -- that is, if all the speculation about imminent "disclosure" is well-found. In the "breakaway civilization" scenario, there are already humans who is conducting the experiments and to what end.
My friend, Ellen, has been telling me for a decade that whoever is doing these horrible things, they aren't human. I'm coming around to her opinion. They are our overlords, and they are living underground or in Antarctica or hiding in plain sight, taking human form. I find it plausible that there are competing races, warring with one another to control our planet. Whether they are extraterrestrial or something more like the Greek Pantheon is something we'll find out. The tea leaves are pointing to an unveiling in coming months or years. It's more likely that this will come from human whistleblowers than the overlords themselves coming out of the closet.
Then the big question will be whether the whistleblowers are laughed off the stage.
I just saw this, another mummy story, this one more ancient, and obscured by modern secrecy. It's just interesting and does not fit, even with potential dating problems...
800-Million-Years-Old Sarcophagus In Siberia: Tisul Princess
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXSYKoqWLk0
800 million years is before the Cambrian explosion, a time when there was only single-celled life on earth. If this is real, I have nothing left with which to think about the subject. But what is the evidence for 800 million years? This was left out of the video.
A story like this is a good qualification for my first paragraph. I wrote disparagingly about throwing out evidence that doesn't fit with present paradigms. But we all have to decide which scientific mysteries to focus attention on. My criteria are the strength of the evidence and intrinsic interest of the claim. In this case, the intrinsic interest is very high, but the strength of the evidence is too low for me to take it on. At least for now.
Yes, "problems with dating".
:-D
Not asking you to take it on.
Oh, I don't mean to press you for firm conclusions with such sparse evidence, but I am entertained by such unusual information.
Not everybody likes things that don't fit, but I seem to
Thank you for your fascinating substack!
There's a line of possibility introduced in a few different 'The Why Files' episodes (You can find the show on Youtube. I highly recommend it. If you've yet to see it, know that he starts with the "conspiracy theory" story and then he argues against it. Sometimes the conspiracy largely stays on the table; sometimes it's mostly dis-proven, in any case, he's interested in anomalies & unanswered questions. You have to watch it until the end to learn how he thinks, and, often, in the making of the show he comes to believe more than he initially did). In broad strokes, an idea he presents would be that we arrived far in the distant past, (similar to the superman story) ensconced within (protected by) specifically-crafted-containers and that, similar to creatures that live in extreme niches, we've evolved to survive. If that's a possible origin story for us, then that could be a possibility for the mummies you describe.
Thank you for your fascinating substack!
There's a line of possibility introduced in a few different 'The Why Files' episodes (You can find the show on Youtube. I highly recommend it. If you've yet to see it, know that he starts with the "conspiracy theory" story and then he argues against it. Sometimes the conspiracy largely stays on the table; sometimes it's mostly dis-proven, in any case, he's interested in anomalies & unanswered questions. You have to watch it until the end to learn how he thinks, and, often, in the making of the show he comes to believe more than he initially did). In broad strokes, an idea he presents would be that we arrived far in the distant past, (similar to the superman story) ensconced within (protected by) specifically-crafted-containers and that, similar to creatures that live in extreme niches, we've evolved to survive. If that's a possible origin story for us, then that could be a possibility for the mummies you describe.